Capturing a Moodie subject
Director Zoe McIntosh and producer Costa Botes talk about the making of Lost in Wonderland, a fascinating, touching portrait of Rob Moodie that’s currently screening on the New Zealand International Film Festival circuit.
Director Zoe McIntosh and producer Costa Botes talk about the making of Lost in Wonderland, a fascinating, touching portrait of Rob Moodie that’s currently screening on the New Zealand International Film Festival circuit.
Poster design by Costa Botes and Simon Bergin.
So how and why did the two of you decide to collaborate in the first place?
Zoe McIntosh: We meet at a tribal council hui on documentary making. During one of the breaks we started talking and I expressed to Costa my desire to direct more docos, but how I didn’t have a camera or even a computer. Costa said he had both and he was interested in collaborating as a producer. After he had watched my previous docos and heard I had secured Rob Moodie as a subject for a documentary he seemed keen to get things cooking.
Costa Botes: The fact that Zoe was a graduate of the same art school (Ilam) I went to 30 years ago was the starting point for a conversation. I empathised with her difficulty getting traction as a serious director. I had the means and experience to help. My decision to collaborate with her was decided firstly by viewing her student work – which told me she had an eye, and some courage; then by her choice of subject. As soon as she told me she wanted to make a movie about Moodie, I said, "I'm in."
What first attracted you to Moodie as a subject?
ZM: Early in 2007 I was looking through a newspaper and came across a bizarre image. It showed an older man, with glasses and a moustache standing outside the high court of Wellington dressed as Alice in Wonderland. I thought, "What the hell is going on here...?" So I called him up and asked him. From that conversation I knew there was an extraordinary story to be told. After meeting with Moodie in person I was even more determined to make a film about him. He was articulate and engaging, detailing a life full of dramatic peaks and troughs. I couldn’t understand why someone hadn’t done a doco on him already.
Was Rob Moodie always the primary focus of the doco, with the Berryman case the inciting incident, if you will, or was it initially the reverse?
ZM: At one stage we did feel the Berrymans were going to be the backbone structure of the film. But when we pitched the idea at DOCNZ and AIDC people were really moved by the drama in Moodie's life. There are so many alternative directions you can go with docos, it's easy to get sidetracked and lose your point of focus but we kept coming back to that question: why is this man really wearing a dress? And, of course, that meant exploring his past.
CB: The intention from the start was to make Moodie the focus – it was always going to be a film about him. But the Berrymans, and that damned bridge ... it was vital to Moodie's story, because it led directly to his dressing as Alice, yet it was such a complicated and vexing element. At times, it really pulled us sideways. The lowest point was when we did a cross country trek to film the bridge, and found ourselves truly in the back of beyond. We really were almost lost, and not in wonderland.
But we clung to that amazing image of Moodie in his Alice dress. It's so indelible and provocative – the question being, what on earth did he think he was doing? Start with a question like that, and you can't go wrong. That tugged us back from the Berrymans nightmare – which continues.
So the way you wanted to structure the film evolve markedly in the course of making it?
ZM: Preparing for the two pitches forced us to think hard about the structure and treatment of the film before we started editing. We ended up staying very close to what we detailed and pre- visualized in those initial treatments.
How did you secure the cooperation of Moodie and his various friends and family members – was he a tough sell or did he grasp the opportunity to make some points about the Berryman case and the wider NZ society?
ZM: Moodie was happy to sign a release form after only the second time meeting me. Little did he know, at that stage I didn't even have a camera to shoot it on – ha! I'm sure he was pleasantly reassured when Costa came into the picture.
CB: Zoe told me she just rang him up out of the blue, although I believe there was a personal connection with one of his close friends. When I came on board and we committed to doing the film, Moodie was keen, but I'm not sure he believed we'd be able to pull it off. He was remarkably trusting, gave his time freely, and never put any kinds of conditions on us. Much later, Moodie would tell me that, given any opportunity to speak his mind and "wear something pretty", he never needs to be asked twice!
I'm sure Moodie saw it as an opportunity to share his socio-political views. Perhaps the film doesn’t go as far as he'd like in this respect. We were most interested in him as a character – as a remarkable self-made man who had survived a terrible start in life.
His family are proud of him and happy to share their own stories.
How did you finance the film? Presumably getting a pre-sale from Aussie public broadcaster SBS helped you secure the funding you needed in NZ?
ZM: A lot has been out of our own pockets. I tutored and did the odd bit of freelance directing so I could afford to cover living costs while directing Lost in Wonderland. The SBS pre-sale helped but it wasn't enough to complete an entire film. When things got desperate I wrote some begging letters to a few individuals I hoped might be supportive of emerging filmmakers and creative projects in general. Surprisingly I got a few envelopes back with cheques in them.
CB: No. Unfortunately. It didn't. We had hopes of that happening. Jane Wrightson, from NZ ON Air, was at AIDC, and she congratulated us on our pitch. She was very positive about the project and promised to help us, but in the end NZ On Air couldn't do a thing without a broadcaster prepared to show the programme. We simply had no luck with any of the networks. The commissioners actually seemed to like it, but in a commercial environment with tightly formatted schedules, there just wasn't a suitable slot available – even for a movie about an iconic New Zealand personality, someone who has been a newsmaker for 30 years.
That still make no sense to me, but there wasn't – and isn't – much point crying about it. It just made me more determined to get the film made.
The pre-sale to SBS gave us enough cash to carry on shooting. Zoe wrote a bunch of letters begging for money from individuals and organisations. I wrote up a prospectus and went fishing for a bit of private investment. We both got lucky. A few cheques arrived, and we got an equity partner involved. The cash budget was still ridiculously small – a fraction of an episode of Artsville. We got to the finish line only through the generous sponsorship of companies like Nektar, Park Road Post, and Sirocco, and the contribution of free or discounted services by several individuals. This is one way to get a movie made, but it's not a model for a sustainable business.
So how long did it take to make the doco from go to whoa?
CB: It has taken almost exactly two years from deciding to go ahead to the first film festival screenings. Obviously there was a lot of down time, but both Zoe and I probably put in six months work unpaid each.
What were the greatest pleasures and challenges of the process for you?
ZM: There were so many pleasures while making this film. I adored directing the 35mm shoot for the set ups, collaborating with many talented creatives and finally understanding all the complexities behind the man that is Moodie. Working with Costa was a great experience too. He has a great sense of narrative and I admire his pro-active attitude towards making films.
One of the obvious challenges was making the film on so little money. First and foremost I wanted to tell a good story but it was important to me that it was told in a cinematic way. Given our financial situation that just didn't seem possible but we solved that challenge remarkably. Looking back I can't believe what we pulled off for so little!
CB: The greatest pleasure was collaborating with Zoe. She laughs a lot.
The greatest challenge was collaborating with Zoe. When she doesn't like something, she's impossible. And so am I. There were a few barneys, but we always managed to keep talking, and the compromises always led to something better than what we'd have got if either of us had inflexibly stuck to our guns.
Speaking for myself, I learned a lot, and the film exceeded my expectations. That's very satisfying. Oh, and I should also mention working with composer, Tom McLeod. His original score is wonderful.
What was Moodie like to deal with during the process of making the doco? One imagines that his long experience with the media could be a real help in some ways, but possibly a hindrance in other respects.
ZM: Moodie is an extremely busy man so getting his time wasn’t always easy. In saying that, when we did pin him down he was very patient and trusting.
CB: Yes, he's comfortable being filmed. And he loves to talk. But he likes to lecture. That meant a lot of tape rolling on stuff that was never going to be used. It was a challenge to get him to open up about more intimate or personal things. The most revealing interview was done while he was lying prone in a hospital bed, doped up on pain killers. I shot him reflected in a mirror. He started talking about his mother, and for the first time it felt like we were getting a glimpse of the real man.
So when and where can readers seek out the doco (and they should, because it’s bloody good)?
CB: It’s scheduled for screenings at the NZ Film Festival in Wellington, Auckland, Dunedin and Christchurch – see www.nzff.co.nz for dates, times and venues.
And what’s your pitch to potential audience members?
ZM: Expect a film that's about more than an oddball in funny clothes. The core themes embodied in Moodie’s life are universal: everyone loves an underdog, everyone wants a fair and impartial justice system, and everyone will be fascinated by a man who challenges authority and scandalizes convention.
CB: Moodie's a fascinating enigma. We think we've come closer than anyone to figuring him out. We tried really hard to make a full service doco that feeds the eye, the mind and the heart.
So what now for the two of you?
ZM: Making this film has left me a tad broke so I'm moving to Auckland to live with my parents where I'll continue freelance directing for Sticky Pictures’ Gravy series.
Currently I'm finishing post production on a short film called Day Trip, which I directed, and I have a doco in development called King of Caravans that I hope to start shooting in October.
Are you intending to collaborate more in the future?
ZM: Yeah, I hope to work with Costa in the future for sure.
Are you working together on the pitch the two of you cooked up with which Zoe won last year’s the pitching contest at last year’s SPADA conference?
ZM: Writing that script has been put on hold, while working on Lost in Wonderland and Day Trip. I look forward to getting stuck into it again very shortly.
CB: That was Zoe's original idea for a feature film, based on her own real life experiences. Terrific potential there. It's been on the back burner while we've been making a short film called Day Trip, about a gang member who takes a day off. I wrote the script and produced it. That's currently being finished now.
I've also been busy working on a couple of my own documentary feature projects, one called Candyman I shot in Los Angeles last year, about the guy who invented the Jelly Belly jellybean – he's a world class eccentric, and an amazing subject – and another about a NZ artist who is losing his mind (it's not autobiographical).
As for further work with Zoe, definitely maybe. It’s not always easy collaborating with someone half my age (makes me feel old and creaky!) but we've had more laughs than tears, so I’m happy to see where else it might lead.
Anything else you’d like to add?
CB: Docs are much easier to start than to finish, and unfortunately, you don’t really know if you've got anything till long after you've started. They take a huge leap of faith, and a lot of self belief. It was nice to share the journey on this one.
• See the July issue of Onfilm magazine for details on the technical aspects of making Lost in Wonderland.
Zoe McIntosh: We meet at a tribal council hui on documentary making. During one of the breaks we started talking and I expressed to Costa my desire to direct more docos, but how I didn’t have a camera or even a computer. Costa said he had both and he was interested in collaborating as a producer. After he had watched my previous docos and heard I had secured Rob Moodie as a subject for a documentary he seemed keen to get things cooking.
Costa Botes: The fact that Zoe was a graduate of the same art school (Ilam) I went to 30 years ago was the starting point for a conversation. I empathised with her difficulty getting traction as a serious director. I had the means and experience to help. My decision to collaborate with her was decided firstly by viewing her student work – which told me she had an eye, and some courage; then by her choice of subject. As soon as she told me she wanted to make a movie about Moodie, I said, "I'm in."
What first attracted you to Moodie as a subject?
ZM: Early in 2007 I was looking through a newspaper and came across a bizarre image. It showed an older man, with glasses and a moustache standing outside the high court of Wellington dressed as Alice in Wonderland. I thought, "What the hell is going on here...?" So I called him up and asked him. From that conversation I knew there was an extraordinary story to be told. After meeting with Moodie in person I was even more determined to make a film about him. He was articulate and engaging, detailing a life full of dramatic peaks and troughs. I couldn’t understand why someone hadn’t done a doco on him already.
Was Rob Moodie always the primary focus of the doco, with the Berryman case the inciting incident, if you will, or was it initially the reverse?
ZM: At one stage we did feel the Berrymans were going to be the backbone structure of the film. But when we pitched the idea at DOCNZ and AIDC people were really moved by the drama in Moodie's life. There are so many alternative directions you can go with docos, it's easy to get sidetracked and lose your point of focus but we kept coming back to that question: why is this man really wearing a dress? And, of course, that meant exploring his past.
CB: The intention from the start was to make Moodie the focus – it was always going to be a film about him. But the Berrymans, and that damned bridge ... it was vital to Moodie's story, because it led directly to his dressing as Alice, yet it was such a complicated and vexing element. At times, it really pulled us sideways. The lowest point was when we did a cross country trek to film the bridge, and found ourselves truly in the back of beyond. We really were almost lost, and not in wonderland.
But we clung to that amazing image of Moodie in his Alice dress. It's so indelible and provocative – the question being, what on earth did he think he was doing? Start with a question like that, and you can't go wrong. That tugged us back from the Berrymans nightmare – which continues.
So the way you wanted to structure the film evolve markedly in the course of making it?
ZM: Preparing for the two pitches forced us to think hard about the structure and treatment of the film before we started editing. We ended up staying very close to what we detailed and pre- visualized in those initial treatments.
How did you secure the cooperation of Moodie and his various friends and family members – was he a tough sell or did he grasp the opportunity to make some points about the Berryman case and the wider NZ society?
ZM: Moodie was happy to sign a release form after only the second time meeting me. Little did he know, at that stage I didn't even have a camera to shoot it on – ha! I'm sure he was pleasantly reassured when Costa came into the picture.
CB: Zoe told me she just rang him up out of the blue, although I believe there was a personal connection with one of his close friends. When I came on board and we committed to doing the film, Moodie was keen, but I'm not sure he believed we'd be able to pull it off. He was remarkably trusting, gave his time freely, and never put any kinds of conditions on us. Much later, Moodie would tell me that, given any opportunity to speak his mind and "wear something pretty", he never needs to be asked twice!
I'm sure Moodie saw it as an opportunity to share his socio-political views. Perhaps the film doesn’t go as far as he'd like in this respect. We were most interested in him as a character – as a remarkable self-made man who had survived a terrible start in life.
His family are proud of him and happy to share their own stories.
How did you finance the film? Presumably getting a pre-sale from Aussie public broadcaster SBS helped you secure the funding you needed in NZ?
ZM: A lot has been out of our own pockets. I tutored and did the odd bit of freelance directing so I could afford to cover living costs while directing Lost in Wonderland. The SBS pre-sale helped but it wasn't enough to complete an entire film. When things got desperate I wrote some begging letters to a few individuals I hoped might be supportive of emerging filmmakers and creative projects in general. Surprisingly I got a few envelopes back with cheques in them.
CB: No. Unfortunately. It didn't. We had hopes of that happening. Jane Wrightson, from NZ ON Air, was at AIDC, and she congratulated us on our pitch. She was very positive about the project and promised to help us, but in the end NZ On Air couldn't do a thing without a broadcaster prepared to show the programme. We simply had no luck with any of the networks. The commissioners actually seemed to like it, but in a commercial environment with tightly formatted schedules, there just wasn't a suitable slot available – even for a movie about an iconic New Zealand personality, someone who has been a newsmaker for 30 years.
That still make no sense to me, but there wasn't – and isn't – much point crying about it. It just made me more determined to get the film made.
The pre-sale to SBS gave us enough cash to carry on shooting. Zoe wrote a bunch of letters begging for money from individuals and organisations. I wrote up a prospectus and went fishing for a bit of private investment. We both got lucky. A few cheques arrived, and we got an equity partner involved. The cash budget was still ridiculously small – a fraction of an episode of Artsville. We got to the finish line only through the generous sponsorship of companies like Nektar, Park Road Post, and Sirocco, and the contribution of free or discounted services by several individuals. This is one way to get a movie made, but it's not a model for a sustainable business.
So how long did it take to make the doco from go to whoa?
CB: It has taken almost exactly two years from deciding to go ahead to the first film festival screenings. Obviously there was a lot of down time, but both Zoe and I probably put in six months work unpaid each.
What were the greatest pleasures and challenges of the process for you?
ZM: There were so many pleasures while making this film. I adored directing the 35mm shoot for the set ups, collaborating with many talented creatives and finally understanding all the complexities behind the man that is Moodie. Working with Costa was a great experience too. He has a great sense of narrative and I admire his pro-active attitude towards making films.
One of the obvious challenges was making the film on so little money. First and foremost I wanted to tell a good story but it was important to me that it was told in a cinematic way. Given our financial situation that just didn't seem possible but we solved that challenge remarkably. Looking back I can't believe what we pulled off for so little!
CB: The greatest pleasure was collaborating with Zoe. She laughs a lot.
The greatest challenge was collaborating with Zoe. When she doesn't like something, she's impossible. And so am I. There were a few barneys, but we always managed to keep talking, and the compromises always led to something better than what we'd have got if either of us had inflexibly stuck to our guns.
Speaking for myself, I learned a lot, and the film exceeded my expectations. That's very satisfying. Oh, and I should also mention working with composer, Tom McLeod. His original score is wonderful.
What was Moodie like to deal with during the process of making the doco? One imagines that his long experience with the media could be a real help in some ways, but possibly a hindrance in other respects.
ZM: Moodie is an extremely busy man so getting his time wasn’t always easy. In saying that, when we did pin him down he was very patient and trusting.
CB: Yes, he's comfortable being filmed. And he loves to talk. But he likes to lecture. That meant a lot of tape rolling on stuff that was never going to be used. It was a challenge to get him to open up about more intimate or personal things. The most revealing interview was done while he was lying prone in a hospital bed, doped up on pain killers. I shot him reflected in a mirror. He started talking about his mother, and for the first time it felt like we were getting a glimpse of the real man.
So when and where can readers seek out the doco (and they should, because it’s bloody good)?
CB: It’s scheduled for screenings at the NZ Film Festival in Wellington, Auckland, Dunedin and Christchurch – see www.nzff.co.nz for dates, times and venues.
And what’s your pitch to potential audience members?
ZM: Expect a film that's about more than an oddball in funny clothes. The core themes embodied in Moodie’s life are universal: everyone loves an underdog, everyone wants a fair and impartial justice system, and everyone will be fascinated by a man who challenges authority and scandalizes convention.
CB: Moodie's a fascinating enigma. We think we've come closer than anyone to figuring him out. We tried really hard to make a full service doco that feeds the eye, the mind and the heart.
So what now for the two of you?
ZM: Making this film has left me a tad broke so I'm moving to Auckland to live with my parents where I'll continue freelance directing for Sticky Pictures’ Gravy series.
Currently I'm finishing post production on a short film called Day Trip, which I directed, and I have a doco in development called King of Caravans that I hope to start shooting in October.
Are you intending to collaborate more in the future?
ZM: Yeah, I hope to work with Costa in the future for sure.
Are you working together on the pitch the two of you cooked up with which Zoe won last year’s the pitching contest at last year’s SPADA conference?
ZM: Writing that script has been put on hold, while working on Lost in Wonderland and Day Trip. I look forward to getting stuck into it again very shortly.
CB: That was Zoe's original idea for a feature film, based on her own real life experiences. Terrific potential there. It's been on the back burner while we've been making a short film called Day Trip, about a gang member who takes a day off. I wrote the script and produced it. That's currently being finished now.
I've also been busy working on a couple of my own documentary feature projects, one called Candyman I shot in Los Angeles last year, about the guy who invented the Jelly Belly jellybean – he's a world class eccentric, and an amazing subject – and another about a NZ artist who is losing his mind (it's not autobiographical).
As for further work with Zoe, definitely maybe. It’s not always easy collaborating with someone half my age (makes me feel old and creaky!) but we've had more laughs than tears, so I’m happy to see where else it might lead.
Anything else you’d like to add?
CB: Docs are much easier to start than to finish, and unfortunately, you don’t really know if you've got anything till long after you've started. They take a huge leap of faith, and a lot of self belief. It was nice to share the journey on this one.
• See the July issue of Onfilm magazine for details on the technical aspects of making Lost in Wonderland.
© Copyright Onfilm magazine, July 2009 www.onfilm.co.nz