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Light falls through a dark landscape The making of the Colin McCahon doco, I AM The full transcript of the interviews (aka the special extended Onfilm website dance remix, from Onfilm June 2004). Leon Narbey's comments will be added at a later date. Robin Scholes, producer ONF How did your involvement in the project come about? RS I went to the exhibition 'A Question of Faith'. The exhibition told the story of how Colin McCahon had attempted to express his views about our spirituality in his paintings. McCahon started by literally putting religious figures into the NZ landscape and he gradually evolved his own language of dark and light forms to explore the never-ending question of faith. I thought this story could also be told in a documentary. I first met with Jenny Gibbs and through her I was introduced to Martin Browne. Martin had done an enormous amount of researching and persuading to bring the exhibition together. I met with him prior to the opening in Auckland and said I would like to pitch a documentary based on the theme of the exhibition. I asked him if he would act as our advisor - because I believed it would be impossible to do it without him. Martin had an in depth knowledge of McCahon and he had also established good relationships with most of the people we would need to interview. He kindly agreed to help and we wrote a proposal and submitted it to TVNZ. What attracted you to the doco? I saw my first McCahon paintings when I was 19 years old and I bought one of them. I still have it - it's one of the Northland landscapes. It's not one of his masterpieces - but it means an enormous amount to me personally. McCahon for me captured the "spirit" of our landscape. I continued to follow his work. In the early 60's I went to the early exhibitions and loved what I saw. McCahon's Jump series are a kind of personal touchstone for me - they are inspired by the young gannets which have to make their first flight from the sanctity of their island. They must make a leap of faith to test their wings and fly. In the paintings there are usually two black vertical shapes - the cliffs - separated by a white "gap" - the sea and sky. A dotted line travels from the top to the bottom of the cliff. For me, these paintings express what we do, in our lives, every day. Doubts hold you back and tie you down, faith in whatever you are doing and especially faith in yourself, allows you to make a leap and test your limits.
As you get deeper into his work you gain more and more respect for what he did. He was uncompromising about getting his message across - he wants us to see the spirituality of the landscape we live in and in doing so, he asked us to examine our own spirituality. Are we alive to what surrounds us or do we take it for granted? He never painted something to please - he always used painting as a way of talking, a way of getting his audience to think. What did the role of producer entail for you in this case? We were a small and tight team who literally shared almost everything - from writing the script to finding ways and means we could make the budget go further. I principally tried to take an overview and keep TVNZ and NZOA fully informed. And am I right in thinking you began producing the doco while you were still working at Screentime, but left (at the beginning of this year) while it was still being made? If yes, how did that work? I left Screentime to work fulltime at Touchdown at the end of last year - but with the understanding, from both companies, that I would finish the Colin McCahon documentary. How's it been working with younger Turks like Rachel Gardner and Paul Swadel? I've been wanting to work with Rachel since I met her. She is a talented emerging producer. I enjoyed working with Paul as well. Mostly I appreciated that they were prepared to give 200% because they wanted to pay tribute to our greatest artist. What were the most enjoyable aspects of producing Colin McCahon: A Question Of Faith? The support we had from everyone. When I phoned Leon Narby I expected him to be polite but busy - instead he had a passion for McCahon and agreed to do it. Jude Callen and Tony Holden at TVNZ, were also really supportive as was Ross Jennings at Screentime. Richard Browes - who was one of my students at SCARPA took on a research role and did an extraordinary job of sifting through letters to find personal statements from McCahon. Jim Hall was amazing. He composed a whole ballad for Colin McCahon. Martin Browne was also tireless in his pursuit of excellence and accuracy. We would have made mistakes without him. Sam Neill was also supportive, giving up some of his time to read the excerpts of McCahon's letters we've included in the sound track. Thanks also to Paul Casserly who read the narration and Sandra Clark who kept us on track with most things, in particular our budget and schedule. One of the best things was meeting Victoria Carr, Colin's daughter. She also set us straight on personal details. What was the most challenging aspect of producing Colin McCahon: A Question Of Faith? McCahon is dead and there is no known visual footage of him. It was therefore difficult to make his thoughts and feelings come alive for the audience. We tracked down a rare audio interview and used readings from his letters to help us overcome this. The audio interview was particularly useful. It brought out his sense of humour. How do you think the doco's turned out, and how do you hope the audience will respond to it? We see the fully mixed doco tomorrow, Friday. I hope the audience likes it. Robin Scholes, thank you VERY much. Paul Swadel, director ONF How did your involvement in the project come about? PS I met Rachel Gardner around the time they were looking for a director. Had a meeting with Robin. The fact that it's my first bit of 'TV' was probably a good thing – in that I was crazy enough to take it on and give it a 200% commitment. Six years at art school probably helped a bit too in terms of insight into what painters are about, in the engine-room sense. What attracted you to Colin McCahon: A Question Of Faith? It's now titled 'I AM'. The McCahon documentary follows 3 story threads over a 50-year period. There's his painting – which began as totally iconoclastic and took its own unique path. There's the changing cultural landscape of NZ. In addition, there's the story of the man. This guy decided to follow the path of a modernist painter in the middle of the depression. He had children and responsibilities and survived by gardening and orchard work. This was a very brave and tough path to tread - 20 years before the first dealer gallery in NZ even existed. He was pretty much derided for 50 years, first by the art establishment and then by the general public. But he stuck with it. It's a story of single-mindedness that's tinged with ultimate sadness. By the time he was gaining acceptance and began to earn a living, the wheels had fallen off and he began to lose his mind through alcoholism. It's a strong, compelling and important NZ story. As a prompt for the question above (and I hope this doesn't seem really wanky), what do you see as McCahon's contribution to NZ art and our understanding of ourselves as New Zealanders in general? Or, perhaps a better way to put it is, what kind of relationship did you have with McCahon's work and how do you think it's affected the way you view the New Zealand landscape (both physical and psychological)? Did making the doco alter this relationship for you? Yeah it is a bit of a wanky question. Criticism and theory aside - I'm really interested in what compels artists to do what they do. That drive to a sort of peace in themselves through the act of creation. Especially in a culture more interested in rugby than art. McCahon certainly casts a long shadow, has been controversial, and is NZ's biggest hitter in terms of multi-million-dollar price tags.
I tried to avoid worthiness and find the man. This became a work of archaeology. There's only one voice recording of McCahon and absolutely no moving images of him. It was my tendency to move beyond the hype and get excited when say, we found out that he was a competitive Latin dancer - the stuff that goes beyond the cliche of him as a dour god botherer. Getting a balance between the art and the man was a challenge. We know about Noah for what he did with his ark, and tend to forget that afterwards in the bible, he took his clothes off and got pissed. I'm attracted to McCahon as one of those individualistic kiwi hero obsessives... who just kept on going, tried to ignore the shit he got along the way and eventually prevailed. The human side is an important port of entry for the NZ audience, because they've grown up to feel a bit ignorant in front of contemporary art. Which is a big shame. McCahon painted this stuff as a man of the people for the people. What was the visual style you and DOP Leon Narbey decided on and why? We shot 16mm on a bolex, b&w super8, 24p mini-dv and digi-beta of the paintings in the 'Question of Faith' exhibition in Sydney. We've gone for a very 'Filmy' style. Lots of natural light. Lots of time-lapse. It's all very simple and modernist. I had a running joke with editor Jonathan Brough that there were to be no dissolves in the cut. McCahon's work has a hand-made awkwardness to it. I certainly aimed at a hand-made feel reminiscent of documentaries of old. How long was the shoot, and what did it involve in terms of travelling around NZ? A couple of days in Sydney and then 4 weeks travelling up NZ. Leon, myself, prod-coordinator Juanita Dobson and art afficionado Martin Browne travelled around in a van. Sometimes we'd be doing a first-light timelapse at 4.30am and still be shooting through to 11pm. Very long days. Pretty amazing. How long did making the doco take, from go to whoa? I think I started tweaking the script and working on it in Nov. Hmm. It's taken about 7 months.
Given how tightly budgeted docos are in NZ, how could you afford to direct Colin McCahon: A Question Of Faith? I did some ads in Sydney in November. And back-ended McCahon with ads in Wellington. Both TVC jobs afforded me with paydays from a few weeks' work that was almost double my McCahon fee for 6-7 months. I don't see how anyone could actually live doing docos alone. It's all a bit at odds with notions of 'quality' and the charter etc. especially when we look toward Southbank Show docos etc for reference. The budget and schedule were a total uphill struggle. Who knows why seems to be the status quo. Things need to become a bit more realistic methinks. With Michael Moore's doco winning the Palm D'or at Cannes - I can't see why the form gets so ghettoised in NZ. Real documentary is incredibly important. How was it working with two NZ screen industry legends on the doco? I mean, the producer of Once Were Warriors and one of our undisputed great DOPs - obviously a great opportunity to learn from others' experience etc, but I imagine it could be a little intimidating if you allowed it to be... To the converse actually. I've pretty much jumped in, made it mine and probably been quite demanding. Leon Narbey is amazing. I did a list of DPs and then thought, jesus, Leon's the ultimate man for this. So, I called him up - expecting to be turned down. Instead, he said yes. As a former student of McCahon's, he brought a lot of knowledge to the project. One of the most supportive DPs I've worked with. A true master and a legend, although he'd shy away at such descriptions. Working with Robin was equally interesting. Network politics and everything else, all new to me. She's certainly a classic individual and a lot of fun to work with. Again a true professional, supportive and certainly not intimidating. What were the most enjoyable aspects of making Colin McCahon: A Question Of Faith? Interviewing some incredible people. People who built the art industry in NZ 50 years back before it was ever a financial proposition. They did it for love and out of an idealism that came from socialist, and pacifist thinking after WWII. It was all about cutting ties with European tradition and forming a true NZ identity. The issues are all still so very current and vital. What was the most challenging aspect of making Colin McCahon: A Question Of Faith? The Budget. The Budget. The Budget. Finding ways of getting to the finish line without the film being compromised. How do you think the doco's turned out, and how do you hope the audience will respond to it? It's been my aim to create something that is very human. I've tried to get away from the 'worthy' BBC style arts documentary. Who says art has to be pointy headed or boring?
There's a lot of new stuff in there. It's not a retread of old information. I'm hoping people will be entertained, informed and learn quite a bit too. I've been very conscious when making this, of folks like my grandad, who thinks that McCahon couldn't draw to save himself, and my mother - who brought up 4 kids as a solo mum and doesn't know a lot about art. Who is the audience for it, do you reckon? I think the audience is very broad, it directly concerns a New Zealand identity and an important figure in our history who casts a very large shadow indeed. The last McCahon doco was made in 1987 - who knows when there'll be another. By far the biggest audience will be thousands of highschool kids studying Art and Art History over the next 20 or 30 years. I've been conscious that my 3 year old son will be watching it in 15 years' time too - it's an important story - which is nice, because McCahon always maintained that his work was painted 'for those yet unborn'. And when/where will that audience get to see it this year? It will screen on TV One - to be announced. Paul Swadel, thank you VERY much. Rachel Gardner, associate producer ONF How did your involvement in the project come about? RG Robin Scholes and I were actively looking for a project to work on together. In another life she was an art historian, and has probably always wanted to make a documentary on Colin McCahon. She invited me to the opening of McCahon's 'A Question of Faith' exhibition at the Auckland Art Gallery, we discussed how we might approach a documentary on the subject, wrote the prop and got funding. What attracted you to the idea of making a doco about Colin McCahon? I've always been a huge McCahon fan. But what really intrigued me was Colin McCahon the man. Who was he? What influenced him to do what he did? I mean being a painter in New Zealand in the 1940s, 50s and 60s was tough - even if you painted pretty pictures, which McCahon clearly did not. It was a very conservative society, not the haven for suffering artistes it is today. There were no dealer galleries until the 1960s, and even then few people spent money on art. Even less people understood what McCahon was painting - a lot still don't. He was constantly derided by the establishment, and the public. But he kept at it and never ever gave up. That fascinates me. As a prompt for the question above (and I hope this doesn't seem really wanky), what do you see as McCahon's contribution to NZ art and our understanding of ourselves as New Zealanders in general? Or, perhaps a better way to put it is, what kind of relationship did you have with McCahon's work and how do you think it's affected the way you view the New Zealand landscape (both physical and psychological)? Did making the doco alter this relationship for you? McCahon's contribution to New Zealand art is phenomenal - how can I quantify it in a paragraph? In terms of my own relationship with his work, I've always loved McCahon's brutal simplification of the landscape and how his paintings imbue simplicity and harmony, even when the message is violent. Making this doco didn't alter that for me, but I do see McCahon everywhere now. What did your role in the project involve? I see you're listed as associate producer but get the impression that doesn't necessarily fully describe what you did... I was involved in all aspects of the production from development through to post production. I was really lucky in that Robin provided support and directed me (in producing), while letting me run with it. How long was the shoot, and what did it involve in terms of travelling around NZ? Paul and Leon had a few days in Sydney to shoot the paintings. We had to wait until the exhibition got to Sydney because we didn't get clearance from the McCahon Trust in time to shoot at the New Zealand exhibitions, and in Melbourne the paintings weren't hung particularly well. The New Zealand shoot was about a month long, and it was pretty intense. Paul, Leon and our production coordinator, Juanita Dobson and interviewer Martin Browne put in some very long hours. They travelled from Dunedin to Golden Bay, interviewing and shooting landscapes on the way. They then did a series of interviews in Wellington and Auckland and a few days in the Waitakere Ranges and out at Muriwai. One of the really nice things about the shoot was that almost everyone we interviewed knew Leon from their student days. (He was a student of McCahon's). I'm sure that had an impact on the performance of the interviewees - knowing the guy behind the camera always helps you relax. Was that a logistical nightmare then? Organising it was the easy part. Although Paul and Leon definitely needed the support of a production person on the shoot, and it was a crazy month for Juanita. Luckily for us, Juanita is also a talented photographer, so she doubled up and took our stills too. How long did making the doco take, from go to whoa? Robin and I went to the opening of the McCahon exhibition at Auckland Art Gallery in March last year, and I guess you could say that was the beginning of development. Paul came on board about November and we finish the post-production this week (end of May). It's been a long, slow process done in fits and starts, but all good things take time! Given how tightly budgeted docos are in NZ, how could you afford to do Colin McCahon: A Question Of Faith? We were lucky with our funding, but it was still really, really tough getting the budget to stretch. There were a lot of hidden costs associated, which you wouldn't normally come across, involving copyright clearances etc. With projects like this, people across the industry get involved because of the content and drop their fees accordingly to get as much on screen as possible. I think I can safely say that Colin McCahon has become a hobby for Paul, Robin and I, albeit a passionate one. How was it working with two NZ screen industry legends on the doco? I mean, the producer of Once Were Warriors and one of our undisputed great DOPs - obviously a great opportunity to learn from others' experience etc, but I imagine it could be a little intimidating if you allowed it to be... Leon is such a gentleman - I don't think he could ever intimidate anyone. And yes, he is one of our undisputed great DOPs, which is something I'm reminded of whenever I watch the cut. Robin is great - she and I have a really dynamic and positive working relationship. She knows her stuff inside and out and shares information and is incredibly supportive. What really struck me was the dedication and drive of everyone involved. That goes for Paul too - total and utter dedication. But he's not such a greenie himself - though it's his first television production. I've been incredibly lucky to work with such experienced professionals. Now I believe that you were a bit of a slack-arse and took about three days off in order to have a baby... Seriously though, how did you manage to pull that off and how are you doing in finding a balance between work and domestic duties? (I, of course, ask this question as much - if not more - for my own benefit than for our readers'...) Haha - it wasn't that bad! I had the baby just before Christmas, when there was a natural break in the project for a while. After that I either worked from home, or took the baby to meetings with me. Everyone is pretty accommodating when it comes to breast-fed babies, and luckily it was my second baby so I knew what I was in for. Not finishing the project was never an option for me. Once you're committed, you've got to see it through. It's quite funny actually, we had a lot happen during this project: a couple of operations, a baby, a few acute illnesses, severe sleep deprivation and the worse case of chicken pox I've ever seen in my life, but we're all still standing. What were the most enjoyable aspects of making Colin McCahon: A Question Of Faith? It's been fascinating being privy to the thoughts, opinions and memories of some of New Zealand's most respected artists and critics, many of whom were at the forefront of creating a distinct New Zealand art that broke free of European traditions. They were pioneers in the truest sense of the word. I also really enjoyed working with the people I did. This was my first production, and I was heavily supported by our Line Producer, Sandra Clark, who gave me a crash course in budgeting and post-production. She also made sure that we crossed all the i 's and dotted the t 's, pulled the shoots together and held fort when I took time off to have my baby (all the while juggling another job!). Everyone who worked on this production gave that extra 10% for the common good and that goes for the usually silent post-production team too. Jonathan Brough (editor), Keith McLean (online editor), Nick Buckton (tracklay and sound mix) all put in some phenomenal hours with me and Paul to make this work. I've established some great relationships and made some good friends; my favourite - Victoria Carr (McCahon's daughter) who still lives in the family house in Crummer Road. Overall the project as a whole has been challenging, stimulating and very rewarding. It's hugely satisfying seeing something through from seed to screen. What was the most challenging aspect of making Colin McCahon: A Question Of Faith? The budget. Boring, I know but it was challenging. There was also a lot of politics involved, which required careful navigation. How do you think the doco's turned out, and how do you hope the audience will respond to it? It will be interesting to see how the audience responds. Whether they love it or hate it, we've unearthed some interesting stuff and everyone will learn something new from it. I'm really proud of it, and not just for the story it tells, but for the way it looks. It's really beautiful - the landscapes and how Paul has chosen to use them is brilliant. It's quite simple and almost awkward, which works well with the subject matter. He's made a great film. (I always knew he would!)
Who is the audience for it, do you reckon? It's an important New Zealand story, and it's relevant to all New Zealanders. We were conscious of giving it broad appeal, hopefully opening up McCahon to people who might otherwise have misunderstood his paintings. People like my aunt who says that words in a painting isn't painting. I really hope those people - not your usual arts audience - will watch it and understand what it was McCahon was trying to achieve and what his motivations were. Anyway, I'm digressing… in the end the biggest audience will probably be secondary school students. TVNZ have teamed up with Waikato University which has commissioned a 'schools kit', written by Susan Nemec, which will be based on the documentary and that will go out to all Art and Art History departments in New Zealand. Actually, the entire way through post production Paul kept muttering that in all likelihood his son was going to study this documentary in 15 years or so. The audience has been a driving force for Paul. And when/where will that audience get to see it this year? On TV One later in the year. I don't think I'm allowed to say when it will be screened. Watch this space... Rachel Gardner, thank you VERY much. © Copyright Onfilm magazine, June 2004 www.onfilm.co.nz |